And there’s PLENTY more where these came from. How immigration, communism, marxism and Kenya apply to a “principled” opposition on HEALTH CARE…Mo’Kelly isn’t sure. But yes, the Tea Party isn’t racist and Mo’Kelly resents the implication. They are not racist and y’all should stop insinuating they are.
You have no evidence to suggest they are (racist). These pictures actually are all leftist plants, both young and old. They’re emailing, faxing and using crayons with reckless abandon, all intent of smearing the good name of the Tea Party. The Liberal Left is hiring children to create and stand beside signs which “wrongly” paint the Tea Party as racist and xenophobic. And until you can show Mo’Kelly any evidence that these photos are real, Mo’Kelly isn’t buying.
Uh…yeah.
_____
Or how about this from New York gubernatorial and Tea-Party backed candidate Carl Paladino?!
The Huffington Post uncovered this…click HERE
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNQUA0bI5b0&feature=player_embedded#!]
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJk52ylI3wU&feature=related]
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adu1Pj4OVug&feature=related]
Nothing to see here ladies and gentlemen…all just a coincidence, misunderstanding and an elaborate conspiracy smear-campaign by the Liberals to discredit the Tea Party. Negroes disperse, let’s keep this area clear…keep it moving…nothing to see.
[Stay tuned…the new mrmokelly.com website is coming to you in 2010. Set your browsers now.]
95 responses to “Tea Party and Racism – Lovers and Friends Part II”
All of these confused and misled people are products of our public education system. We hope our current students make better posters when they are old enough to be fed up with our taxes, and endless interference in our personal lives. Hold the salt, stop smoking, and why can't we build cars like Toyota (Ooops drop that).
"All of these confused and misled people are products of our public education system."
The irony in that statement is that public schooling is little different than the health care debate…i.e. the public option. People are free to put their children in a private schools or even attend private universities…but in absence of that, they are required to attend up until age 16. But they don't call that socialism…although their property taxes pay for it.
But hey, who ever said this was about facts…?
So we think public education is a good thing based on those poster illiterates? You bet you can expect similar intelligence with the healthcare system when you see those protestors providing you service to keep you alive. Whoa! Not sure I plan on visiting public hospitals?
Ah, but the option is there. Imagine now an America WITHOUT public education. And if you choose to not use any portion of the public health system that is your right…and your choice.
But if you thought ignorance is bad now…imagine this country with NO public education system.
Mo, the information in your recent blogs has been exceptionally informative and thought provoking. Thank you for your commentary and diligent research.
Hmmmm, I wonder how Walt Bennett would try and spin this small section of photos? What excuses would he try and come up with that would deny what our collective eyesight's see?
I guess we will never know huh… 🙂
BrendaKay, you beat me to it, I was wondering the very same thing. Where is Walt Bennett??? what is the spin for these teabaggers
I'm waiting for Walt too. I can't wait to read his take on it, and more often than not, I do play that devils advocate role, so I see what his motivation is. I don't doubt that there are some extreme racists in the Tea Party, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept that they all are like that. It's almost like making a judgment on all black women, just based off of watching some of the characters on reality shows. We all know that there has always been a lack of positive news stories about African Americans, although there are more of us that are law-abiding than not. I believe the majority of the Tea Partiers are rational people, but the nut jobs are getting all the press. Now I don't know why they're in an uproar about the spending on this and not about the war, but I'm pretty sure that any answer given wouldn't satisfy.
birds of a feather,flock together…..I'm waiting on Walt too!!!~
Yep, racism is alive and well. But I bet you for every one racist sign against our president, you'll find 10 blacks committing racist hate crimes. Just look up Lavonte Drummer, Dominic Davis, and Keith Phoenix these past 7 days.
Hey Brutal, show me your facts…10 to 1? Not a chance. I showed you at least 15 signs over two posts. Show me 150 hate crimes committed by Blacks. Don't talk about it, back it up. I'm here all day.
And mind you, those are just the photos that people took, not indicative of ALL that were there. And I've only looked a total of 10 minutes. So the number you'd have to show would be even higher. Get to work, you have a lot to do.
Were these requests for my reaction sincere? Perhaps. If so, here is my image-by-image reaction:
Image 1: Offensive and racist. Sent by a Florida neurosurgeon to a list of those who oppose Obamacare. Thought it was funny to protray Obama as a witch doctor. Apologized when a fusillade of indignation ensued. Many of those who had previously supported him withdrew that support. In other words, the imagery was soundly rejected, even by those who agree with his overall views.
Image 2: Funny.
Image 3: Calling Obama "Kenyan" may be offensive but it is not racist.
Image 4: Not racist to call Obama "African".
Image 5: Calling Obama a Kenyan Idiot is not racist.
Image 6: "Fear of a black planet" is not racism.
Image 7: Offensive and certainly racist.
Image 8: Declaring Obama to be non-Christian is not racist.
Image 9: Calling Obama a Marxist Muslim is not racist.
Image 10: Calling Obama a socialist is not racist.
Image 11: Calling Obama a Kenyan is not racist.
Image 12: Showing Obama in bare feet in a "sitting monkey" pose is racist and offensive.
Score: 3 out of 12 patently racist, the others attack his nationality and religion. This may or may not be "code" for actual racist sentiments. You would have to ask the individuals in order to know.
Now, does anybody want to talk about the real issues or do they just want to keep posting pictures and declaring the case solved?
I'll check back later and see. Don't expect any further comment by me unless I see that there is a clear intent to have a discussion.
Walt is it hard for you to believe that the only reason these people are protesting is because we have a true "African American" as President of these United States?
This is a new day in our Country. None of us ever agree 100% with the policies of the current president. However, if you watch interviews with some of the Tea Party Members, they can't even express why they disagree with any policy. They don't even know what the policies are. They call him a 'socialist' and they don't know what that mean. They have said, out of their own mouths, that Obama just want to make things better for black people. When black politicans states he's not doing enough. All the name calling and disrespect demonstrated toward this president as gone to the extreme.
Which, in my opinion, is why you see states like Arizona, Virgina and others, trying to overturn all the progress we have accomplished in the last 40 to 50 years. "They want their Country back". They want it the way it was, when minorities, especially black people, new their place. We all know what some of them think about that "uppity", "elites", "Niggra" who now is the President of the United States. Come on Walt – "Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil".
In my 50 years on this earth, there has only been a few President who have fought hard to keep their promises and cared about the people they were elected to serve. And Obama is one of them. He is not a perfect man – but he is the right man for this time.
Question Walt,
What would America be like today if McCain/Palin were in office? I can't even imagine.
More signs seen at Tea Party rallies, not sure if the embed code will work, otherwise go to the links provided.
Point being: found instantly on Google, none of them racist.
So, what's the proportion? Who can say?
I tried to embed some images but it didn't work, so just go here:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=tea%2…
and start looking. In the first fifteen images I found zero that were even borderline racist.
Next chance I get to visit a Tea Party rally I will try to determine a proportion of overall signs to those attacking Obama personally for his race, religion or national origin.
Until then we're just playing games with pictures.
"Question Walt,
What would America be like today if McCain/Palin were in office? I can’t even imagine."
That must be because you live in fear of a white planet.
That's reverse racism.
How dare anybody assume that McCain/Palin would have been hostile to Black America and seek to roll back hard-won rights?
This entire issue has ceased to be based in anything resembling thoughtful consideration.
Once I knew I could come here and get exactly that, thoughtful consideration.
Now I know that I can come here and see nothing of the sort.
That's a fact.
If these pictures are only representative of a "small" fringe group where is the representative who will speak for the majority of the Tea Party supporters? Why hasn't that majority spokesperson chastised the media for highlighting this group and not the true supporters of the movement? Why haven't those who find this group as repugnant as many other people do spoken up and out against this "fringe" group? Wouldn't it be beneficial for the Tea Party movement to distance this "fringe" group from the sincere more rational and tolerant supporters? What efforts have been made to reach out acroos racial,cultural barriers to share the Tea Party philosophy?
You just don't feel like looking it up, do you?
Republicans and Tea Partiers routinely deplore racist expressions.
They also deplore the "catch-all" tactics of their opponents, casting all Tea Partiers in the same vulgar light.
They also deplore Liberal tactics of smearing people with lazy generalizations which are not only inaccurate but offensive.
In other words and please pay attention: Just as it is offensive to be subjected to racist expressions, so is it offensive to be declared a racist for being at a rally in support of a cause you believe in, simply because some at the rally expressed themselves in a racist way.
Would you appreciate your son being called a thug because he was with some friends who decided to beat somebody up? Wouldn't you prefer that he be viewed solely on his own behavior and choices?
And don't you understand that once you have labelled somebody a racist, further communication is impossible?
I SWEAR I have no idea what the hell is going on anymore.
"In other words and please pay attention: Just as it is offensive to be subjected to racist expressions, so is it offensive to be declared a racist for being at a rally in support of a cause you believe in, simply because some at the rally expressed themselves in a racist way."
The caveat and apt comparison is acknowledgment of what is the response. What is/is not the response to those who make such signs or who act in such a way. Are they discouraged by those around him/her? No. Are they asked to take down their signs and not conduct themselves in such a way? No.
They instead smile comfortably for pictures while others compliment them on their creativity.
For "some" to publicly SAY such behavior is not condoned is betrayed and contradicted by what is DONE and what is CONDONED.
Which takes me back to my original argument…complicity. If you can show me the Tea Party making such demonstrators uncomfortable and such demonstrations unwelcome, then the Tea Party can rightfully complain about a "wrongful" and "undeserved" association.
Complicity.
"They also deplore the “catch-all” tactics of their opponents, casting all Tea Partiers in the same vulgar light."
What exactly do you mean and what examples/facts do you have to demonstrate this truth? Be very specific about these supposed "tactics." There's a reason that one bad apple spoils the bunch. But the only difference is…apples don't have the choice to either walk away or disassociate themselves from the rotten ones.
Tea Party members can…and choose to not do so. So is that a smear-tactic? Absolutely not. You are known by the company you keep. If you allow racism and xenophobia a comfortable foothold in your house, don't get mad at me if their stench gets in your clothes too.
Morris,
Just examine your own tactics.
I was speaking of you specifically.
The details of my issues with you have been repeated ad nauseum with zero impact.
I'm going to take my good friend Dwayne's advice: I need a break from this place.
I was speaking of you specifically.
The details of my issues with you have been repeated ad nauseum with zero impact.
And I was of course speaking of you specifically. You wanted to see a return on an investment without any investment…meaning, your opinions would make more of a dent in this crowd (including me) if they were backed up with supporting documentation as to the fullness of your contention. It's nice to say that the Tea Party doesn't condone racism. But the evidence to the contrary is mountainous. A singular link here or there on your behalf doesn't tip the balance in your favor. A public statement by a Tea Party leader "deploring" the actions of these "fringe racists" doesn't either. To me, that's no different than the KKK saying that they are a peaceful organization (which they do) and yet don't decry the violence of the skinheads (which they don't).
We all know that if asked, the Tea Party leadership will pay lip service…and this isn't about lip service it's about true ideology. There is a boatload of evidence which supports the contention that the Tea Party's rhetoric contains an undercurrent of racism. Don't take my word for it…take their actions and complicit INACTION for it.
This will be my last comment on this Walt…if the situations were reversed and you offered 20+ news stories of liberals planting people at rallies, emails and voicemails of Democratic operatives engaged in strategy sessions in regards to how to "unfairly" smear the Tea Party or showed me links to news stories of Democratic candidates being supported by a specific group which employed questionable practices in regards to the Tea Party…
And all I had in response was a link or two…what would you say?
What would you argue?
And would you think that my point could withstand scrutiny in the face of it? If the roles were reversed I seriously wonder. I seriously, seriously wonder.
Morris, look at the title of this post.
That's it and that's all.
You've become perverted.
By what? Let's discuss that sometime.
And Morris, you should have scolded that person for such flagrant disrepect to a person who has invested as much time as I have in this space seeking substantive discussion.
Walt, the beautiful thing about text is that it lives on.
I didn't "scold" you for calling me a "lousy debater" or saying you "pitied" me from on-high. If someone calling you "scared" offends you, by all means make your case as to the contrary as I did with you. I respond to those things that offend me and I know you do too. I didn't think I needed to defend your honor and you see people don't defend mine either.
Honestly Walt, you've never needed anyone to defend you, it just seems on this occasion you're in it against a multitude of people who don't agree with you. It's familiar territory for me but maybe not so much for you.
I do draw the line at egregious name-calling or flagrant insults. If you noticed I don't delete comments that I disagree with or seemingly outlandish assertions. But in all honesty, if you comb through all of your commentary yesterday, I can find at least 5 insults directed towards me that I didn't "censor" or "censure" you for. I simply stayed in the fight.
If the worst thing anyone has called you is "scared"…you're doing good.
"It’s all related, Morris?
Now you’re threatening to sprain a brain muscle."
That's not personally insulting?
I forgot to mention when you said "you should be ashamed." That wasn't insulting?
I've never made this dialogue about YOU…I made it about your argument. So if I didn't drop the hammer on someone who might have alleged you to be "scared" we also have to ask why I didn't drop the hammer on you. I'm being VERY fair.
I haven't backslapped anyone else who hasn't agreed with you or hi-fived those who have agreed with me. I simply continued the discussion. You will not find any comment by me thanking them for agreeing with me. "Letting people pour it on"? You're being dramatic now.
People disagree with you. You have the unpopular opinion on this occasion…it happens. But I disagree that you've been openly disrespected for your views.
And "shame" is never a worthy rebuttal in an argument in my book…especially about the behavior of the Tea Party. Save that for them. Like I said, this isn't about emotion this is about facts.
I'd also like to take a moment to say something that shouldn't need to be said, and it's Morris' shame that he let it go unchecked.
Somebody called me "scared."
Either Morris is so puffed up that "a win is a win" and he's happy to let others pour it on, or he's too afraid of his own following to correct them when they go too far.
Words matter. If you know anything at all about me, you know that. Isn't every topic on this blog about the very point that words matter?
So let me make this clear: If you threatened my life or that of my family you could never scare me into shutting up.
If I take a mental health break it's purely so that I am no longer part of the problem, and to give everybody a chance to reset.
So please stop hitting the Enter Key so quickly before having a chance to edit yourself.
And Morris, you should have scolded that person for such flagrant disrepect to a person who has invested as much time as I have in this space seeking substantive discussion.
That remark was beneath the dignity of this blog and of you personally, Morris.
Morris, you and I going at it over a point of contention is what we do.
Letting a member of the peanut gallery perform a drive-by is what I'm talking about.
It was completely gratuitous.
Interesting…I agree, it's what we do. But to another person looking in on the conversation isn't necessarily versed in our history or its extensive nature. It may be just one, two or four threads. They will read your words and take them at face value or indicative of the types of banter allowed here. But the commenters on this thread can't really be characterized as "peanut gallery"…they do comment, albeit not AS frequently as you and I but certainly they do…usually on other subjects.
I try, I try not to have a set of rules between certain posters and the "general public." Because it's truly unfair to allow certain people to engage in a personal repartee that the general body can not.
It didn't need to be a rule, just a retort by you "I don't think debate scares Walt", just a nod in my direction which I believe I've earned.
But then again I thought I'd earned the right to have my views considered thoughtfully and thoroughly, which this tangent on racism has disproved.
Some day you are going to have to find a way to talk about this, Morris, and not just set it on fire.
Walt, I didn't simply set this on fire. We've been having "conversation" about this for the better part of two weeks. And in fact, we've had others that were just as "impassioned" if not heated at times.
Brenda,
Walt isn't a fraud. I can promise you that. He may have said some things that you categorically disagree with and I do too on occasion but respectfully, he is not a fraud. He and I are miles apart on this issue but I know enough about him and have dealt with him that he is earnest in his desire to work through and wrestle with these issues. And in doing so, we will find those items that make each of us bristle. This is one of those times. I took particular exception to his stance on Affirmative Action…we don't agree.
But I wouldn't dare call him a fraud. I'm not chastising you, I'm just saying that I believe he is earnest in wanting to find common ground on these issues. We may not ever agree on some of them but he is standing in there and taking his lumps when clearly he doesn't have to do so. He's not backed down and standing up for what he believes. I won't fault him for that. On the issues of race, in this forum HE is the minority and that's no small task to undertake.
That said, Brenda…I still want you to contribute to this discussion as I'm sure EVERYONE is tired of just hearing my voice or Walt's…all views are appreciated, even the ones we may not fully agree with.
[…] And so I have taken a time-out from being the DWD over at you-know-where. […]
Walt Bennett,
I didn't want to go with first impressions, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to take you at your word. But I'm forced to conclude that my first impression about you was absolutely spot-on. You are nothing more than a disingenuous fraud!
You try hard to hide this fact, but the more you post, the more your true nature is revealed.
You will bend over backwards, forward and sideways trying to convince those of us who read Mr. Mo's blog, that what we see, or have seen with our own eyes and have experienced time and time again because of the color of our skin ~ that it's all somehow not what we believe it to be.
The sheer insanity of your "explanation" in response to the small sample of photos above, is insulting to the mind of a 5 year old. And yet you would dare to share this nonsense in a forum filled with adults of varying age?
I could waste my time going line by line in rebuttal of your comments, but what difference would it make? None. You will continue to be an apologist offering up lame excuses for the insulting, inflammatory, dangerous, offensive and racist behavior of certain elements in our society. And you will continue to try and win the argument by posting numerous lengthy biting critiques masked as honest discourse.
Personally, I can deal with folks like the ones in the photos above. Their prejudice is not hidden by a phony, fake facade of wanting to engage in a meaningful dialogue. It's individuals such as yourself Walt Bennett, who I keep my eyes open for.
Brenda,
No, you have revealed yourself.
You're convinced that every white person is a racist, some are just more honest about it than others.
Congratulations. Are you proud of yourself?
Now, how about asking Morris how accurate your conclusions are?
And if you think my reaction to the photos was so off base, I'm sure others would be interested in your explanation.
As would I.
One thing I swore I would never do is deny I am a racist, and I won't break that vow over you.
Morris, this is the final straw. You decide: Am I still welcome here?
Morris,
The broader issue remains: Once we start labeling people, the conversation is over.
I get that some in this group aren't evolved enough to understand that, but I am counting on you to understand that, lest this blog become a bunch of like-minded people talking amongst themselves.
Morris,
The broader issue remains: Once we start labeling people, the conversation is over.
I agree, we shouldn't "label" people…but there is such a thing as earned labels. And it's now time to move this discussion forward. Since we've now moved into the realm of labels and stereotypes…let's put it on the table. I know what the stereotypes are of Black people. Too many to list here. I of course don't want to be known or judged by the stereotypes that some have of Black people.
Yes, we're getting ready to go there…this is what this blog is all about.
But at the same time, anyone who is associated with the Black community knows good and well that the stereotypes that have been "earned" on some level are actively fought against on a daily basis inside our communities. We don't encourage the behavior that is consistent with the stereotypes and work diligently to discourage them.
I don't think anyone, ANYONE is saying the overwhelming majority of those associated with the Tea Party are racist. I don't you can find that I've said it anywhere. I've never said that the Republican Party is racist or the overwhelming majority of its members are.
I AM SAYING…
I am saying that we can point to a pattern of behavior in both parties that is historically consistent and is not discouraged. I've gone to great lengths to list all of the racist behavior of Republican operatives and elected officials to demonstrate an environment in which such behavior is not discouraged or otherwise it would neither be commonplace nor consistent.
Same is true for the Tea Party. The bottom line is that some behavior is simply unacceptable. And if a group's leadership truly agrees it is unacceptable, then it would act accordingly. Leadership would NOT provide an environment conducive to such behavior or turn a blind eye to it when in its presence. The behavior and those acting as such would feel absolutely uncomfortable in the presence of leadership acting inappropriately. The members would follow such a lead.
At this point, such leadership has not been shown by the Tea Party. Therefore they are rightfully earning the racist association. As long as such behavior is obviously WELCOME at its events, then they are what they are. I would also submit, that's not me labeling the party, that's the party simply acknowledging who they are and what they stand for.
If they can make such demonstrations to show how strong they feel about their beliefs as they relate to supposed fiscal irresponsibility (supposed)…then they can be just as vocal and adamant in their attempts to discourage racist behavior within the ranks.
That is…if it's important.
I am, however, comfortable that Brenda speaks only for herself.
Brenda, please try to take me at my word on this: I love all people and I have a special place for blacks, who have endured so much pain throughout American history.
Dwayne says of me "There isn't a racist bone in your body" and he's quite right.
But we have to have the right to talk to each other honestly and openly. That's my intent with every word I type here.
So before you and I go too far down an ugly road, let's change course.
Please express your specific grievances and concerns to me. I want nothing more than to understand and address them.
You think it's easy for me to stand here and defend my principles when so many already have their minds made up?
You think it's somehow entertaining for me to swim against the tide and take the accompanying abuse?
No. I would call it "satisfying" because I am being true to myself, but not "enjoyable."
This issue of "is the Tea Party racist?" is incredibly important and I could not be more concerned that my friends in the black community seem to have already determined that the answer is a blanket "Yes."
That's not because I defend all white behavior uniformly, nor is it because I'm too blind to see what's going on. It's for two reasons, which matter a lot to me:
1. You cannot call somebody "complicit" because they were nearby. That's just wrong and if we applied that standard to all behavior we would all soon agree. In other words, not all TPers are racits, and that's a simple fact.
2. As I have repeatedly said, when you call somebody a racist the conversation is over. What happens next? You each go get your weapons and try to win the argument that way.
I've been warning Morris that he is stirring passions more than inviting dialog, and you are proof of that.
I won't seek an apology from you, just an expectation on my part that you will see how wrong you are over time and when enough other people, who know me far better than you do, tell you how wrong you are.
Just don't be so flip, so judgmental and so quick to label. Those tendencies are all bad, and they all lead to a place where further conflict is inevitable.
And if you haven't figured this out by now, here it is in plain text: I'd rather we found our way forward without massive bloodshed, cities burned to the ground, and another generation lost to insanity.
Walt Bennett,
Just to clear up a few things, I have been reading Mr. Mo's blog for over 2 years. I'm more a lurker who reads through the comments and only speak out when something moves me. But be assured I have been reading your comments since you first started posting on the blog.
Secondly, your personal assessment that I think every white person is a racist is very much incorrect {and more importantly, I wonder how you came to that inaccurate opinion based upon my comments that were directed at you personally.} For the past 14 years and 4 months, I have been married to a white man. Now while my marriage is in the process of being dissolved for reasons that have nothing to do with race. My personal experiences from both sides of the racial divide have been eye opening to say the least.
And lastly, I never claimed to speak for anyone except BrendaKay.
Isn't it possible that the Tea Party doesn't feel the need to address the ridiculous behavior of a fringe of their members? I can see how their silence seems like they're being complicit, but honestly, I have to agree with Walt on this one point. If standing by and allowing something to happen makes you complicit in it, then we are all in for a lot of blame. How many of us are constantly calling rappers to task for their misogynistic lyrics? I know that you have gotten on athletes and their stans (Basketball Wives thread, Stephen Jackson, Michael Vick, and Plaxico (hilarious and thought provoking stuff)), but do we go after them with the same gusto continuously? Labelling the Tea Party as racist seems to be easier than looking past the idiots and examining their real argument. Also, once we accept that some of their members are racist, how do we proceed?
Brenda,
I was angry at you 🙂
I retract that angry response.
If you've read everything I've written here, I expect your view to be more in line with Morris: I can be ornery and disagreeable but it's all about honestly expressing where I stand. I've never tried or claimed to be anything other than who and what I am.
But I do sincerely apologize for firing back with pure emotion. We do tend to regret those moments.
Mr. Mo,
Perhaps Walt Bennett is not a fraud, but I came to that opinion {which is open to being wrong and incorrect} based upon the numerous comments that Walt Bennett himself has posted. I am not judging Walt Bennett against anyone except his own words.
Am I reading him wrong? Maybe I am. But I tend to take a dim view of those who reply with wide brush comments and sarcastic retorts, while claiming to want to engage in an open dialogue. This whole "everyone hates me" act of the last couple of days that Walt Bennett is now playing at, certainly hasn't helped in changing my opinion of him.
I'm not the sort of person who hangs out on blogs, tossing out the proverbial insulting comment simply to get a clash of personalities going.
But I found Walt Bennett's responses to this topic in particular to be insulting, condescending, sarcastic and at times downright rude.
If my opinion of his character is wrong, then I am woman enough and definitely mature enough to offer up an apology. But at this point, I stand by my comments fully.
Brenda,
I believe we can work our way forward.
Now, please take the time to explain to me what you found so insulting in my comments.
I cannot learn any other way.
Morris,
Labels suck, don't they?
If I've been playing the "poor me" card on this topic, then I plead guilty to being sensitive about stereotypes, especially those intended to be harmful.
It hurts a white dude's feelings to see so many white folk lumped into the same ugly category.
The title of this post:
TEA PARTY AND RACISM – LOVERS AND FRIENDS
says it all. That's what I'm so pissed about, the broadness of the charge. I want you to know, honestly, that expressions which may seem racist can sometimes simply represent fear of the unknown. Fear is not racism, and we need to keep that straight.
As for the point about fighting against stereotypes, I give you much credit for doing exactly that among the black community. You take on bad behavior directly and sometimes brutally (which is sometimes necessary) regardless of skin tone, and sometimes BECAUSE it desecrates your own community. I truly admire that.
And I believe you are principled in your views here as well. It's your approach I take issue with. I am very concerned that you will stoke thoughtless anger and encourage others to decide they know all they need to know.
As Chris so succinctly observed, what do we do about it?
And I really do think that part – perhaps a large part – of the problem here is perception, and since I happen to be a white dude, I just might be able to lend some insight as to what makes certain white folk behave the way they do.
I have definitely observed that there is a tendency to conclude that there is a hatred for people "not like them" that drives this behavior, and I can honestly assure you that's not the case.
Certainly there is hatred, and it goes both ways, and I like to think it's a very small and ever-shrinking number.
But fear? Distrust? There is more of that than I can ever remember, and it ALSO goes both ways.
Which is why I have been banging on this drum, that we need to find ways to talk about it.
Because if the educated gang in here can't do it without devolving into name-calling, what hope is there for the larger mass of population?
And those numbers are truly attention-getting. Millions of people not trusting each other, with no effective way to communicate about it?
A tinder box.
And anybody my age (50) or older certainly knows where that can lead, and it is certainly something to fear and to do all we can to avoid.
Whites fled the cities en masse in the 1970s out of fear. We don't want that to happen again, do we?
One burning block is all it would take.
So we must accept the responsibility that comes with being educated, that comes with taking on the tough issue: We must lead by example and we must work extra hard to come to peaceful terms with each others' views.
And find the way forward.
Walt, I was not saying that McCain/Palin had an agenda against black people. What I was stating is, if McCain/Palin were in office were would our Country be financially. When Obama was elected this Country was falling quickly towards a serious depression. May concern would be how would they be handling what's going on? and would the people be out protesting like they are now? and would there be this type of fight about McCains birth place?
Just asking my brother from another mother!
Sorry, Rev! I couldn't have missed your point any more than I did!
Anybody got a towel?
Here's the thing about being President: You have to decide. You can be guided by ideology but if you don't fix the problem, the consequences are maximal.
It's much better for the right that we have a Dem Pres, so they can blame Libs for doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS they would have had to do.
Funny, isn't it?
And please accept my humble apology for assuming you meant "they just don't like black folk." I probably got there due to the general tone of this thread, and that's where I thought you were.
I feel dumb.
(But I'll get over it:-) )
"And please accept my humble apology for assuming you meant “they just don’t like black folk.” I probably got there due to the general tone of this thread, and that’s where I thought you were."
Yeah Walt, the tone of this thread obviously was not in any way inspired by the pictures, audio, video and other supporting information…no connection at all.
Oh yea, Walt,
I just want to say I love you Brother. And even though we may have different points of view, I appreciate your dialogue. When we talk to one another, and not scream at one another, together we can accomplish a lot.
God Bless you and have a GREAT day!
More racism here: http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/04/two-wo…
Two woman were injured, one critically, when they were attacked and robbed by a man with a baseball bat early this morning in the Bucktown neighborhood, police said.
The attack happened at about 3:30 a.m. on the 1800 block of North Damen Avenue, said Chicago Police News Affairs Officer Robert Perez.
Police believe they were walking to the home of one of the women when their assailant came up behind them and hit them on the back of their heads with a baseball bat, Perez said.
Knocked unconscious was a 23-year-old woman who a source said is a University of Illinois at Chicago graduate student from Ireland. She was in critical condition, officials said.
The other victim, a 24-year-old woman who lives in the area, told police that the man hit them and stole their purses. She was able to give police a description of the attacker before she fell unconscious, Perez said.
The suspect was described as an African-American male between 27 to 34 years of age, between 5-feet-7 and 5-feet-9, with a medium complexion. He was wearing a tan or light colored hooded sweatshirt.
The women were taken to Advocate Illinois Masonic Hospital where the 23-year-old was listed in critical condition and the 24-year-old woman was in serious condition, Perez said.
Brutal, I'm not letting you slide by. You said TEN to ONE, I'm waiting on you to BACK THAT STATEMENT UP. YOU SAID 10-1. I can find links/instances of racism all day long going the other way. So AT BEST, we'd be 1-1…
You have another 149 to go (assuming I don't find anything else) before anything you say is taken seriously. Like I said, either back up what you say, admit you can't or back away from this conversation.
And by the way…you posted a link to a crime, not a HATE crime. So actually, you have another 150 to go.
Walt Bennett,
Having had the joyous and equally painful experiences of being one half of an interracial marriage, I suppose you could say, I have become much more sensitive to racial issues both overt and concealed.
In regards to the Tea Party, do I personally believe that all of the participants in these various marches and events are racists? Of course not. But sadly, this movement has become largely identified and dare I say, co-opted by these offensive and racist posters and signs.
The very fact that the leadership and organizers have made absolutely no efforts in either curtailing or letting it be known that these signs and posters are unwelcomed and have no place at these various events, have directly led to the entire movement {rightly or wrongly} being labeled as racist.
President Obama is an American citizen, and according to his own expressed comments, he identifies himself as a Christian. So while Walt Bennett doesn't personally may not view the signs and posters calling the President a Kenyan, a Marxist Muslim, a socialist, a monkey, etc. as being racist. I'm left to wonder if race is not the root cause of using such insulting and derisive words and picture ~ what then is motivation for this?
In the course of showing disagreement with the Obama Administration's policies, it's now become necessary to insult a person's race, religion or heritage?
I respect that we all look at things from the vantage point of our personal experiences. But there is no defense or logical explanation for the offensive signs that shows up at Tea Party events and rallies.
Mr. Bennett, I don't believe that you're a racist. Not at all. But I do believe that you are too quick to dismiss situations and instances which are in fact, racially based.
Looking back on my own experiences over the course of my marriage, I have come away with a much deeper appreciation for how difficult it is to have open, honest, understanding discussions on race.
Will we ever truly understand each other? I don't know…
Brenda,
Thank you for the detailed comment. I like building bridges.
And thank you for clarifying that you find my motives to be non-racist. That absolutely matters to me.
Two points, one obvious and the other not:
1. I am white, not black, and therefore I can never truly "understand" what it means to be black in America. I do, however, know that it does mean "something" and that it means dealing with a lot of shit purely based on your skin tone. And that sucks and I abhor it and I start from there in learning what I can about your experience.
2. Quite the contrary of being too quick, I am probably too slow. But as I said in my most recent video blog, I prefer slow to fast, because when I go too fast I will miss important nuance. So, I plead guilty to going slow with regard to identifying the motives behind these signs. My point is, I'd rather let 9 racists go unidentified if it means I also don't label that tenth person a racist, wrongly.
I consider it a very, very high charge to be called a racist. That means, in so many words, "I sure wish this country had no black people in it." In other words, the very highest form of hate. That place must be reserved for the worst of the worst.
If you and I ever do come to an understanding, an by talking about it we surely will, then let's see where the middle is. I will acknowledge that these signs strike at the heart of who Obama is, which obviously includes his skin tone. I'd like you to acknowledge that fear and distrust are not de facto racism.
Can we start there?
Rev.,
Thanks for the support. It means a lot. I am not asking you all to come out and say you love me, but I do appreciate being acknowledged as honest and earnest.
These are difficult times, bound to get even more difficult, and we're all trying to do the best we can to make sense of them.
And this is not about "mistrust" or "distrust." This is about hatred. If you honestly believe that this country has been "stolen" from you and the president is there "illegally" and not an American citizen…this is WAY beyond mistrust. Again, this is about challenging the legitimacy of the president. And if in your mind his presidency is illegitimate then everything from that point is reasonable and acceptable.
I feel like I'm arguing the same thing over and over again…this is not a principled fight. This isn't about fiscal irresponsibility. It's about the man in the office and how they don't like HIM, for reasons having nothing to do with legislative decisions.
This is for BrutalGal:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/offenders.html
For 2008…
By race
A review of available race data reported in 2008 for the 6,927 known hate crime offenders revealed that:
* 61.1 percent were white.
* 20.2 percent were black.
* 5.9 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (multiple races, group).
* 1.1 percent were Asian/Pacific Islander.
* 0.7 percent were American Indian/Alaskan Native.
* 11.0 percent were unknown. (Based on Table 9.)
So according to the FBI, there have been 3 times as many White hate crime offenders as opposed to Blacks. What proof do you have that Blacks commit hate crimes 10-1? I have FBI data, the only nationwide agency which collects this data. What do you have?
Exactly.
Facts win every time.
I'd also like to ask Brutal what the racial ratio is for the beatings we never hear about: You know, the ones carried out by people of power performing their "official" duties.
You are in the wrong place to spread such junk…
Mr. Bennett,
There has never been any confusion on my part at least, that fear and distrust are not de facto racism.
But where the lines get murky is ~ when that fear and distrust manifests itself in form of posters, signs or written comments that mock and insult a person's race, a particular religion or someone's heritage.
I have long understood that the popularity of the Tea Party movement was how well it plays into, and gives a forum to the fears and distrust of a certain segment of America society. This segment of our society fears their voices and concerns aren't being heard or are being ignored outright. This segment fears that they are becoming a minority. This segment fears that a radical foreign way of life is being forced upon them. And most importantly, this segment of American society fears that their "rights" are being taken away from them.
I understand and respect those concerns and fears. And while I don't dare to speak for the President and his Administration, I do believe he also understands and respects these fears and worries. Hence, the extra efforts that he goes to in trying to keep the process of governing and implementing his policies as transparent as possible.
And while I could go off on a tangent about how I believe that the Tea Party supporters are being grossly manipulated by those wanting to gain an advantage by using them and their movement. I will stay on point and simply say again ~ fear and mistrust, can be addressed and hopefully some level of understanding can be reached.
But when you add in the toxic mix of insulting someone's race, religion or heritage while hiding behind the excuse of fear and distrust ~ then no measure of understanding, respect or co-operation will ever be achieved.
And this is the very point, where the entire Tea Party movement has gone off the rails.
"I will stay on point and simply say again ~ fear and mistrust, can be addressed and hopefully some level of understanding can be reached.
But when you add in the toxic mix of insulting someone’s race, religion or heritage while hiding behind the excuse of fear and distrust ~ then no measure of understanding, respect or co-operation will ever be achieved.
And this is the very point, where the entire Tea Party movement has gone off the rails."
Well, well, well said.
Such behavior isn't about achieving cooperation or understanding. Well, well said. And neither is it about voicing a grievance. Like I've always said, the Tea Party, the Birthers, the rural armed militia…they're all the same people, as evidenced by the signs and video. The Tea Party allows them all to have "a voice" where otherwise they wouldn't. Please, I would love to hear what "rights" have been stolen from them by this administration. It hasn't been voiced.
What law has been broken by the enactment of the Health Care Reform Bill?
This is the double-speak of what I mean. Many point to the Bush tax cut as somehow "lowering taxes" on Americans. But at the same time ignore the spending of the Iraq war. I'm not a math major but I understand addition and subtraction.
The economic collapse of this country was prior to Obama taking office and due in large part to such ridiculous economic theories. He wanted to go to war and wanted Americans to also feel good about themselves by receiving a few hundred dollars in the mail. Well the bill became due. Again, the economic collapse came YEARS before the signing of this health care reform bill.
Double speak. They're for fiscal responsibility but don't even understand basic math or history for that matter…which led us to this point. And to Brenda's point…none of that has anything to do with the president's heritage.
"Yeah Walt, the tone of this thread obviously was not in any way inspired by the pictures, audio, video and other supporting information…no connection at all."
Now, Morris… 🙂
The tone encompasses the subject, does it not?
(Hey, I can split hairs with the best of them!)
Mo,
Here's a suggestion: get some smaller brushes.
Make some distinctions along the way. a) It will strengthen your argument; b) It will go a long way to giving me some reason to believe we can talk our way through this.
I stand by my assertion that fear is not racism, and we need to take a vote on that and keep talking til you vote with me.
I don't know how to make you understand that it is not hatred to be afraid of a black president turning this country into a social welfare state.
It may be irrational, it may be lacking in a certain understanding of modern day political history, but it is not racist. It is not hatred.
It's fear that your world is changing in ways that threaten you. It is, if anything, primal.
And by the way, that's good news. It means you can talk to this person and assuage their fears. A lot of the people at TP rallies can easily be persuaded to see things in a different way.
They just have to be approached the right way.
Just for clarity – when I say that "I understand and respect these concerns" ~ that does not mean that I agree or believe these concerns are true. I simply understand and respect how these concerns may be true to someone else.
I hope that makes sense…
Brenda,
Those are the tools that allow us to, as Morris says, "disagree without being disagreeable."
Which I have not done enough of lately, and which I hereby commit myself to correct.
Morris,
Let me share something with you and then I want a response.
I harbor certain fantasies, things I imagine that I might do one day. One of those goes something like this: I walk deep into a black neighborhood where whites are rarely seen, and I sit down at a park to watch people shoot hoops. Pretty soon people wander over to check me out since I'm something of a novelty. At first they are hostile; some order me to leave but I refuse since this is a public park. Some threaten me and I respond by reasoning with them. The point of the effort is for them to learn to see me in a non-threatening way, and to accept that I simply want to make friends with them.
(a) Would I get away with it? In other words, would I achieve the goal?
(b) Would somebody be crazy to predict that I'd get beat up?
"They just have to be approached the right way."
But what is to be gained by approaching someone with a sign that indicates that they believe the President is a monkey or a Muslim or a Kenyan ~ none of which is true?
What sort of meaningful or insightful dialogue can possibly be achieved when the starting point is based upon some sort of an offensive, insulting, hateful and racist falsehood?
Let's be completely honest here, the signs such as the ones highlighted in this article aren't being carried and waved around because the individuals holding them want to talk and reach some level of mutual understanding.
I'll venture a guess and say, that dialogue is the very last thing they want to have with someone who looks like me or the President…
Brenda,
I didn't mean to imply that they are awaiting this discussion with open arms 🙂
They are not. And at first they will be highly suspicious. But if you walk them carefully through the issues, many will come to understand that this president is taking an honest, balanced and intelligent approach.
What they are so afraid of is that he is going to use his talents to "take back" part of their wealth and freedom. It may be irrational or it may just depend on your perspective.
But a couple cups of coffee later, you will both be much closer to understanding each other, and they may just put down that sign.
And by the way, it is not an unjust criticism to say that Obama is more a citizen of the world than a citizen of the U.S.
In his most reflective moments, he might even admit it.
Oh and let me be clear about one thing: I do mean they need to be approached by white folk, not black folk. It could be black folk, but I meant we need to take care of our own and help them see that we are a country divided more by economics than by race.
I want you to believe that this can be done, because I know it can.
I will be video blogging on this topic on Sunday night at midnight east. Be there if you'd like to join in. I want to talk about how white folk talk about race, both with other white folk and with blacks. Because it is clear to me that this must get resolved before any substantive dialog can occur.
We have to get past our mutual suspicions of the others' motives.
Interesting exercise:
Go here http://www.teapartyslogans.com/cgi-bin/web/index…. and start using search words.
I tried: "American".
Interesting.
A TP rally that bore no discernible resemmblance to a Klan rally:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/lo…
[…] is not, however, irrational to worry that Obama is, as I said over at Mo’s (just can’t stay away), more a citizen of the world than a citizen of the United States, and […]
No, "Adante" she doesn't. Crimes involving victims and offenders of different races doesn't make them hate crimes. Pay closer attention to the discussion. You have one last chance to stay on topic or you will be deleted and banned. Random, gratuitous remarks about Blacks and crime and general are not the topic.
So now, she still has 150 to go. I'm not playing Adante. Stay on topic or stay out.
It would be interesting to poll the people in each community on how they view their local public healthcare, and their local schools. If this debate turned away from political power brokers and turned to what people see first hand, that is more powerful for public servants to serve their community. How many mothers, fathers WANT their child to go to public schools in Detroit or Los Angeles? Nobody really seems to care about the people, they are more concerned on some lofty principle that ignores the people to improve their future.
Adante,
Ever heard of Bensonhurst, Brooklyn?
Adante…you're done. Have a nice day. No trolling allowed here.
And for the record, Adante was evidently unaware that this blog is not shy about placing blame where it belongs, regardless of skin color.
And as I have noted, sometimes specifically due to skin color.
Morris is keenly aware that public perceptions can ride on the actions of a few.
Correct Walt,
Adante, was simply trolling…not adding anything to the discussion. That doesn't fly here.
Of course, media distortions and the resulting distorted perceptions are very valid topic for discussion.
Too bad Adante had no interest in an actual discussion.
Late to this, and Walt has pretty much hit every point I would make anyway. But I can react to this:
"If you can show me the Tea Party making such demonstrators uncomfortable and such demonstrations unwelcome, then the Tea Party can rightfully complain about a “wrongful” and “undeserved” association."
http://www.breitbart.tv/tea-party-attendee-confro…
How many other instances of this did we not see because nobody bothered to look for them? Did Mo look for examples like this, or when he did his Google search did he only look for "Tea Party Racist photos"?
And, OH MY GOODNESS, here's a BLACK MAN saying that he doesn't feel uncomfortable at a Tea Party rally. His answer is very eloquent:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2010/04/…
Then we have the other problem of the Black Congressman claiming how the N-word was shouted at him as he left the Capitol. Despite Breitbart's $100,000 reward for proof of this, nobody has come forward. In fact, we have evidence of just the opposite.
http://biggovernment.com/sright/2010/04/27/video-…
What's all this mean? That you see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe. Using Mo's logic, Robert Byrd should have been run out of Congress decades ago. The fact that Rep. Lewis is clearly lying — especially about a race issue — goes unreported, unchallenged, and unpunished.
"Then we have the other problem of the Black Congressman claiming how the N-word was shouted at him as he left the Capitol. Despite Breitbart’s $100,000 reward for proof of this, nobody has come forward. In fact, we have evidence of just the opposite."
No, there has been no proof of the opposite. I had spaghetti for dinner last night. But since I didn't have my camera phone ready at the precise moment, sorry I can't prove it to you. But yes it did happen. So no, you do not have "proof" of the opposite or "proof" that someone is lying. You will rightfully choose who you wish to believe. But you can prove neither.
"And, OH MY GOODNESS, here’s a BLACK MAN saying that he doesn’t feel uncomfortable at a Tea Party rally. His answer is very eloquent:"
And Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas says Affirmative Action played no role in his appointment. What's your point? I wouldn't feel uncomfortable at a Tea Party rally…but that doesn't mean that race is not an undercurrent. One has nothing to do with the other. He's entitled to his opinion. The discussion wasn't about whether Black people feel comfortable.
There were some Black people who felt comfortable during segregation too and many fought to keep the status quo. They didn't want to rock the boat. There were some African slaves who did not wish to try to escape. The existence of "one" is a non-starter argument. If you can find ONE Black person who feels that way, what does that say about the 10 who argue the alternative? Are you trying to help prove my point?
Scour the internet, find as much evidence as I have to support your point and then come back. I didn't show A PICTURE, I didn't come back with ONE video. Preponderance of evidence matters here.
What of the complicit inaction regarding Lewis?
Jack, we're like a thousand comments into this thread.
What are you talking about?
argh, i had a longer post detailing several pieces of video that attack your thesis. It didn't show up.
That attack whose thesis?
I didn't know I had a thesis.
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jamil Smith. Jamil Smith said: And @dangainor, if you think the disgruntled Republicans, ahem, Tea Parties haven't been racist, you must lack eyesight. http://is.gd/c3etR […]
"Tom," your comment is not relevant to this discussion, please stay on topic or your comments will be stricken. Nobody was talking about hate crimes Whites on Blacks, so the reverse is not relevant to a discussion about the Tea Party either. No trolling here.
Tom, you're done. I explained the rules to you. You refuse to respect them. No trolling allowed. Have a good night.
1st: President Bush had it much worse. He was actually referred to as a monkey on several occasions by the press and had 8 yrs of slanderous coverage.
2nd: Most of the "racist" comments attributed to the tea party are not racist but just in the typical poor taste that is associated with partisan politics. Example: The first picture of Obama as a witch doctor is based on the view of national health care being as bad as going to a witch doctor and the fact that Obama has an African ancestry (just as Bush's constant portrayal in a cowboy hat was due to his living in Texas and the desire to portray him as a shoot-um-up cowboy to belittle our war efforts.)
3rd: There is no indication that the clearly racist poster attached to the telephone poll was placed there by a tea party activist.
4th: Its people like Mo Kelly and orginizations like the NAACP that prove week in and week out that they are the real racists in this country. Everything they see, do and say is defined by race. They are complete hypocrits.
@ Loves America
"2nd: Most of the “racist” comments attributed to the tea party are not racist but just in the typical poor taste that is associated with partisan politics. Example: The first picture of Obama as a witch doctor is based on the view of national health care being as bad as going to a witch doctor and the fact that Obama has an African ancestry (just as Bush’s constant portrayal in a cowboy hat was due to his living in Texas and the desire to portray him as a shoot-um-up cowboy to belittle our war efforts.)"
Anytime you'd like to join the rest of us in reality, we'll be here waiting. George Bush himself perpetuated the cowboy image complete with 10-gallon hats and boots. The moment you can find an authentic picture of Obama with a bone through his nose and African regalia while barefoot in the brush…come see me and not a moment before.
And by the way "Loves America" Bush didn't have it worse. Even BEFORE the Health care bill was introduced, assassination threats against President Obama were up 400%…BEFORE the health care debate started.
So no, he didn't have it worse…and you have no evidence to support such a claim.
"Its people like Mo Kelly and orginizations like the NAACP that prove week in and week out that they are the real racists in this country. Everything they see, do and say is defined by race. They are complete hypocrits."
Your horrendous spelling notwithstanding…it's the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the oldest civil rights organization in the history of America. So you're saying by bringing up issues of race they are "hypocrites?" Please explain that one. So yes, EVERYTHING they do is defined by race…it's in their CHARTER.
What do you want them to talk about…basket weaving? Wanting equality doesn't make you a racist. I think you should better research the meaning of racism, because you clearly aren't aware of the definition.